<![CDATA[SOCIAL ENTERPRISE ACCOUNTS CIC - Blog]]>Tue, 31 May 2022 23:55:49 +0100Weebly<![CDATA[Update on Capium]]>Tue, 01 Mar 2022 12:42:37 GMThttp://socialenterpriseaccountscic.co.uk/blog/update-on-capium​Capium Bookkeeping
As I promised when we first tried Capium here is my update to how we have found it.
Firstly support, they have a lot of good How To guides that you can easily access and if you still can’t work out how to complete your task you can raise a ticket with support. A ticket is often answered the same day or the next.  A lot of initial answers point you to the correct guide, which I have generally found does sort the problem out. If not, you can respond to the ticket and further assistance can be gained. This does however mean that occasionally it can take a couple of days to sort it out. BUT I have found the help they offer usually has it all sorted the same or next day.
Bank feeds can be set up at a cost of £1.50 +VAT a month. However, check your bank is supported, not all are and in particular Co-op Bank isn’t which I know quite a few CICs use their Social Enterprise Accounts.  See the below link for supporting banks.
If bank feeds aren’t used, uploading bank statements is relatively easy if your format is correct. A template is easily downloaded from Capium. The file must be saved as a CSV file and one quirk of Capium is that there can’t be any £ signs. Money coming in and money going out must be in separate columns with no – signs. Depending on how your downloaded statement is formatted this can mean a little bit of work removing £ signs and separating income and outgoings before uploading. Once the format is correct uploading is very simple.
The below link will give a good overview of how to use the bank dashboard.
It is worth familiarising yourself with the chart of accounts before going through the uploaded statement to reconcile so you know what choices you have to post the transaction to. If you have a specific account or category you want to use new accounts are easily added.
If your accountant uses Capium they can assign one user per company for free so you can use it to do your bookkeeping. (The accountant has to buy the bank feed if you want to use it then assign it to your company)
I have found the process fairly similar to others at times it wasn’t always intuitive but with the support available I generally overcome problems quickly.
Please contact us on liz@socialenterpriseaccountscic.co.uk if you wish to try Capium. I would recommend it as a cheaper alternative to various other accounting software. (Its normally free to use if you are a client of ours, don’t need bank feeds and only need one person to use it.)
<![CDATA[​Information for CIC’s wanting reduced cost accountancy services]]>Tue, 08 Feb 2022 16:55:39 GMThttp://socialenterpriseaccountscic.co.uk/blog/information-for-cics-wanting-reduced-cost-accountancy-servicesAs you will be aware CIC’s are required to submit accounts to Companies House on an annual basis as well as submitting accounts and a CT 600 tax return to the inland revenue.
It is planned to pair volunteers we have recruited with various CIC’s who want to use their services. This will be done three or four times per year by preparing a list of CIC’s who want to use the volunteer service and circulating this list amongst the volunteers for them to choose which CIC’s they wish to volunteer for. The CIC will then be presented with the volunteer’s CV and will have the final say on whether they feel the volunteer is suitable for them. In the three or four months leading up to matching volunteers with CIC’s we carry out various checks on each. Therefore any interested CIC’s are urged to apply as soon as possible. It is anticipated that some volunteers will want to select more than one CIC.
It is expected that the volunteer will prepare the annual year end accounts for Companies House and prepare the CT 600 tax return for the Inland Revenue on behalf of the CIC. The volunteer may provide the CIC with other services such as the production of management accounts, regular bookkeeping or attending board meetings, however this is a matter to be decided between the CIC and the volunteer. Social Enterprise Accounts will only be involved in preparing year end accounts and corporation tax returns unless specifically engaged otherwise.
Social Enterprise Accounts CIC is a firm of chartered accountants registered with the ICAEW and specialising in CIC’s. Volunteers undergo the same rigourous checks as when we take on a new employee or subcontractor (i.e. these include a review of the candidates CV, an identity check, taking two references and an interview via zoom). We are on hand to answer any questions regarding matters specific to CIC’s that the volunteer has not dealt with before. We will also review the accounts prepared by the volunteer before they are submitted to either companies house or the inland revenue. Additionally the volunteer has access to our software, standards and procedures. You will also become a client of this accountancy practice if you need help in the future.
We normally ask for accounting records from CIC’s using the volunteer service to be submitted to us within three months of the CIC’s year end. We then ask the volunteer to have the accounts filed with Companies House within six months of the CIC’s year end. This leaves three months to spare where any problems can be rectified. (The deadline for submitting accounts to companies house is nine months after the CIC’s year end and the deadline for submitting a CT 600 and accounts to the Inland Revenue is 12 months after the CIC’s year end).]]>
<![CDATA[Job Vacancy Extension]]>Mon, 07 Feb 2022 00:00:00 GMThttp://socialenterpriseaccountscic.co.uk/blog/job-vacancy-extensionWe are still looking for accountants to fill our job vacancy.

Position is for a part-time accountant working from home. Must be either qualified or qualified by experience (minimum of four years work experience in practice required if qualified by experience) with a  good level of previous experience of working within practice. Must be capable of preparing accounts for company clients and preparing a corporation tax return ready for filing. Most queries will be dealt with by email with the client by the successful candidate.
You will be working from home for a small accountancy practice that specialises in CIC’s and other social enterprises. Most clients are CIC companies or other social enterprises but there is a range of other clients.
Experience of working with CIC clients advantageous but not essential. Experience working with companies essential.
Practice uses Capium online software to prepare the clients accounts and tax returns. This is cloud based and can be accessed from anywhere. Applicants will be expected to have their own PC and access to a home office in most cases although this is negotiable.
Hours to be flexible depending on work available but expected to average around 10 hours per week and maximum of 25 hours per week. 

Applicants should email a CV and details of two professional references preferable one of which will be a previous employer in the accountancy business.
<![CDATA[​Reduced Cost Accountancy]]>Tue, 25 Jan 2022 14:17:01 GMThttp://socialenterpriseaccountscic.co.uk/blog/reduced-cost-accountancyWe are continuing with our plan to roll out a new service for CIC’s. We are looking for more CIC's that may be interested for pairing with Volunteers in March.
This will involve a team of volunteers preparing year end accounts and
corporation tax returns for CICs, for a fixed fee of £200 pa.
The team of volunteers will be supported by Social Enterprise Accounts CIC.
Any CIC’s interested in this service should email liz@socialenterpriseaccountscic.co.uk .
It is anticipated that accountants employed elsewhere will volunteer
​to help one or two CIC’s.
We will have a list of CIC’s requiring help and you will be able
to choose off it.
Please e-mail liz@socialenterpriseaccountscic.co.uk if you are
interested in more information. As a minimum we would be looking
for you to prepare the CIC’s year end accounts and
​corporation tax return. It is up to you and them if you want to help them with anything extra (e.g., bookkeeping, management accounts, attending board meetings).
Why Offer This Service?
For a lot of smaller CIC’s, the cost of having to have annual company accounts done, let alone anything else is prohibitive. This service will aim to help match up such CIC’s with appropriate volunteers who wish to help such organisations within their local community. It will also provide access to things like software for preparing accounts and tax returns. CIC specific advice, extra services not able to be provided by your volunteer and back up from Social Enterprise Accounts, we will be there should your volunteer not prepare your year-end accounts on time or similar. In short, we’ll be aiming to provide a traditional accountancy service but cheaper.]]>
<![CDATA[A client recently asked me if grants subject to VAT?]]>Wed, 15 Sep 2021 23:00:00 GMThttp://socialenterpriseaccountscic.co.uk/blog/a-client-recently-asked-me-if-grants-subject-to-vatHere is what we found out. We hope you find this helpful.
This is a question frequently asked by clients who receive grants of over £85,000 (currently the VAT registration threshold) and wonder if they must register for VAT.
There is no definitive guidance on this complex area. Grants are generally outside the scope of VAT unless there are actually a payment for something such as services. When we say they are outside of the scope of VAT they can be ignored in calculating whether the VAT threshold (currently £85,000) has been exceeded. It is therefore important to look at whether any consideration is given in return for receiving the grant.
Sometimes something is described as a grant and is actually a payment for something (for example X number of training courses), even though the recipient is different from the grant giving body, so it is within the scope of VAT. Where something is freely given without the expectation of receiving something in return it is a true grant and you can exclude it when calculating whether the VAT threshold is met.
It’s probably worth going through the attached guidance for each grant to see how many points are satisfied. These do come from government guidance but they are not a complete list. In general the VAT supply and consideration manual deals with VAT on grants. See vatsc06300 onwards on grants.

Extracts from the VAT Supply and Consideration Manual
relating to VAT on grants

What matters when determining if there is a supply is the extent to which goods or services are provided in return for the payment? An outside the scope grant could share some features with a supply made for a consideration – such as being funding for a specific purpose, and being governed by a set of terms and conditions. However grants that are not consideration for supplies are freely given and there is no expectation of goods or services being supplied to the funder, or a specified third party, directly in return for the money paid.

Consideration: Payments that are not Consideration: Grants: Factors indicating the payment is a grant
The following factors are taken from precedent cases.  They are not in any particular order, all factors should be considered when making a decision.  The more there are in your situation, the more likely it is that the payment is outside the scope of VAT.
The factors to consider are:
the payment was made following a grant application process run by an organisation that regularly provides outside the scope grants, such as central or local government are the funders the beneficiaries of the project? To be outside the scope of VAT a grant should be freely given.  In using the payment, the supplier carries out its own charitable aims and objectives with the assistance of the money which is given with no expectation of direct benefit in return the funder will not attempt to control how the money is spent beyond seeing that the funds are properly managed.  Any monitoring is no more than simply ensuring the payments are appropriately spent the supplier will set its own targets as opposed to the funder imposing specific targets  the payments are not treated as trading income or expenditure in the accounts of either party if the funding is withdrawn there is no legal redress for the supplier to have the payment reinstated funding is drawn down by the supplier as a reimbursement of expenditure incurred, rather than an advance payment for services.  Alternatively, there may be a ‘deficit funding’ arrangement whereby the funder agrees to plug any funding gaps   the funding is provided under a statutory provision that empowers the funder to make a grant.  This would be mainly relevant if the funder is a Government department or local authority there is a ‘clawback’ provision within the agreement.  Funders use this method to reclaim their funding in circumstances such as where not all the money was spent or if the terms of the agreement were not complied with. In contrast, a contract for a supply should not contain a ‘clawback’ clause as there is no automatic right to reclaim any money.  The money is consideration for the supply and the solution for reclaiming the payment in any subsequent breach of contract is to sue for damages.  
Consideration: Payments that are not Consideration: Grants: Factors indicating the payment is consideration for a supply
The following factors are taken from precedent cases. They are not presented in any particular order, all factors should be considered when making a decision.  The more there are in your situation, the more likely it is that the payment is consideration for a supply. The factors to consider are:
who initiates the agreement? If the funder is seeking services in return for their payment then this indicates the payment is consideration for supplies made to them if the funder is the direct beneficiary of the supplies.  The funder believes they are receiving something in return for the payment. the supplier undertakes outsourced activities on behalf of the funder where the services provided are ones ordinarily provided by the funder so the supplier is acting as a subcontractor.  Examples include the provision of functions ordinarily undertaken by local authorities that they have a statutory duty to perform and would face sanctions if they did not happen the contract is commercial in nature ie it is a legally binding contract connected to a business activity.  This means looking for indicators such as penalty clauses being in place if the supplier does not fulfil their responsibilities and so is in breach of contract the supplies are undertaken as an economic activity.  It is not necessary for the supplier to have a profit motive, but the type of supplies should have the potential to make a profit the relationship between the funder and supplier will be at ‘arms length’ and there will be an absence of control from the funder in the supplier’s decision making process the payments made by the funder to the supplier are made specifically for the supplier to provide particular services to its clients. The fact that the funder does not know at the time the service is provided the identity of the client or the even the specific service which is being provided is not relevant each activity carried out by the funder gives rise to a specific and identifiable payment.  This is an agreed sum, either a single payment or a sum per activity ie the more work done, the greater the payment.  For this to happen there is probably a detailed recording system for timekeeping, outputs achieved etc  the funder will attempt to control how the money is spent, maybe imposing specific targets in terms of quantity, quality, timeframes etc.  Any monitoring is more than simply ensuring the payments are spent properly and is to ensure that specific supplies are made if the funding is withdrawn there is legal redress for the supplier to have the payment reinstated or claim compensation the payments are treated as trading income or expenditure in the accounts of either party.  

Consideration: Payments that are not Consideration: Grants: Factors that are neutral
The following factors are taken from precedent cases.  The court decisions referring to these factors regarded them as neutral, so their presence in an agreement generally does not indicate either way whether the payment is an outside the scope grant or consideration.
The neutral factors are:
the payment is described as a grant in the contract and correspondence.  Whilst the wording of a contract is important, what the payment is called does not determine its VAT treatment the level of detail within the contract/agreement does not point in either direction, ie it is wrong to say that the more detail there is, the more likely there is a contract for a supply the supplier is obliged to provide reports and information to the funder.  This is not an indicator either way as a condition in the agreement to report on how the payments are used will be required either to confirm supplies were made or in a grant situation act as good housekeeping to ensure the money is spent for its intended purpose  the supplier’s activities and the number of projects undertaken are influenced by the payment ie they would be significantly curtailed in the event of a withdrawal or reduction in funding.  Although this could indicate there was a supply made to the funder, you must still look at whether a supply is actually made to them, as a withdrawal of a grant may equally mean a reduction in service provision   
See also
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-supply-and-consideration/vatsc06300 onwards on grants in general

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-supply-and-consideration/vatsc06110 on donations
<![CDATA[Directors Duties]]>Fri, 09 Jul 2021 16:46:30 GMThttp://socialenterpriseaccountscic.co.uk/blog/directors-dutiesA client in the process of forming a C.I.C. would need to appoint a director for their C.I.C.  They wanted to know what are the duties of a C.I.C. director?
A C.I.C. director would need to fulfil all the normal duties of any company director but with the added duty of making sure the company is fulfilling its mission statement.
In brief I would say that the duties of a director can be summarised as follows;
1.     Formulate & review strategy
2.     Ensure policy & practices keep to the organisation’s aims
3.     Ensure the organisation functions within its legal and financial requirements, and strives to achieve best practice, including keeping adequate records of all meetings and financial transactions as a director
4.     Promote the objectives of the organisation
5.     To act with skill, care, diligence and independent judgement
6.      To promote the success of the company
More detailed explainations and information of the roles and duties of a director can be found on the following sites,
Gov.uk Community interest companies guidance https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/605421/13-712-community-interest-companies-guidance-chapter-9-corporate-governance.pdf
Companies House blog the general legal duties of company directors
the 'Association of Chairs'  https://www.associationofchairs.org.uk
The institute of directors   https://www.iod.com/]]>
<![CDATA[What is a CIC?]]>Fri, 09 Jul 2021 16:43:58 GMThttp://socialenterpriseaccountscic.co.uk/blog/what-is-a-cic​A CIC is a company that is run not for profit and provides a service or helps the Community in some way. Profits and assets are kept within the company and used for the benefit of the community it serves. Shareholder dividends have to be capped.

A CIC has to file accounts and pay taxes just like any other company. In addition, each year it must file with Companies House a CIC34 form and explain how it has benefitted the community.

A CIC can be set up like any other company and registered with Companies House. There is an additional CIC36 form, required for incorporation of a CIC, which includes the community interest
statement. (An explanation of how it intends to
benefit the community.)
​The current cost to set-up is £35.

For further information you can follow the links below to the Gov.uk website .





<![CDATA[Bookkeeping Cloud Ware]]>Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:26:49 GMThttp://socialenterpriseaccountscic.co.uk/blog/bookkeeping-cloud-ware​Bookkeeping cloud ware
We were recently asked to look into bookkeeping software for a client.
We checked on review sites first to get a few suggestions and a wider range of options. 
With most of them you need to work out what you want the product to do both now and in the future. Is it just bookkeeping or will you need VAT submission, Payroll? Most charge extra if you need payroll. Generally, the more users you need the more expensive and if you deal with foreign currencies. Also, it makes a difference as to whether you want that central control for more than one company and how much you want to pay.
The software below has either been tried by my PA or comes up in multiple review sites. As with most software the longer you try it out the more familiar you get with it and the more you learn to do. Different people find different interfaces work better for them so it is worth investing time in finding the one that you find easy to operate. The information below is just her opinion and not meant as a definitive guide to them as we only had 2 weeks to look at them and most have only been used for a short period. Prices shown are as correct at the time of inquiry and most do not include VAT. Unfortunately, most do not support our particular bank so we were unable to test bank feeds. Always worth checking your bank is supported. Another serious note to consider is how confident are you? 24/7 dedicated support can be worth its weight in gold.


If you have more than one company and just want separate accounts you can get them for free.
If you want them all on one login to switch between you need to get
each company on Pandle Pro which is £5/month/company.
If you just have the one company, I found this to be a good option.
I found it easy to use except our bank not supported and for uploading transactions it couldn't de-sypher our banks layout. However manually
added was easy but not good if high number of entries. Good support
and step by step tutorials and videos. I found them quick to respond to


Can only have one company per email address.
I have found it easy to use but other clients have struggled as all
support community based not Quickfile employed dedicated service.
Helpfulness varies.
Up to 1000 ledger enteries a year free there after £45 + VAT per year.
Bank feeds add on at £15/year
Comes with 1GB storage if more is needed,1GB storage add on £9.99/year/1GB
To get central access off one login is a variable charge depending on
company size and number of transactions.


Easy to use. We have quite a few clients that have opted for this.
normally £12-£30 per month. We have used this for one client for a few years and any problems were fairly easily resolved.
Payroll is extra.
They have uk phone support so you can access help.

If all you want is an online record of your transactions and reconciliation with your bank account Crunch is a very simple free option. If you want to generate reports or use the data for more then you can pay. The cost is £71.50/month. Support is accessible.

I found hard as our bank unsupported and it was not immediately
obvious how to upload but support was good.
Biggest problem was it made some decisions about depreciation that you
couldn't adjust. Couldn't find how to edit invoice numbers.
However in theory you can create multiple companies on one account for free.
If you want free for multiple companies it is a good option but check bank feed supported
with your bank. Good tool is the chance to set up a company as a
pretend company so you can play with the product to see if it suits
you. You can use a real company to do this.


Has a bookkeeping only option varying from £2 to £9/company/month
depending on how much you need it to do. Comments have been made that it is not the most intuitive platform. Support is available.

More expensive but they do offer a 50% discount for not-for-profit organisations.

Normal pricing £12 to £30 per company per month. Comments have been made that it is not the most intuitive platform. Support is available.
We have just taken out a Firm accountancy Cloud Ware with Capium, through which we hope we will be able to offer bookkeeping to clients. We shall keep you updated on how we find it.